Pullman and his subplots

[Valrad]

While I was brushing my teeth, I kept thinking about the subplots of the books. I reached the conclusion that while most were useful for the story, either by enriching it or providing good means for character development, they are quite optional. Lets start with the first book, Northern Lights.

The whole General Oblation Board subplot was the heartbeat of the novel. Around it, the other subplots revolve, such as Iorek Byrnison and his predicament and the rest. At first, it's pretty straight forward and everyone knows what Gobblers do, but when you finish reading the book, and ultimately the series, you can't help but ask? What was their purpose in the first place? There is no explanation at all why they were actually performing intercision, it's more of a clutter of possibilities and theories, but a light as day explanation? Nope.

TSK seemed the best book for me in terms of subplots. Most of them made sense, even though the Mary Malone part was disappointing in the end. But eh, that enters TAS, so I'll discuss it over there. Here, most of the subplots help the story in one way or another, such as Charles stealing the alethiometer and Will discovering the knife, the witches coming to Cittaggaze and then guide the two protagonists etc.

In TAS, there's a major subplot that, to me, it seemed added for the sake of adding something, and that's the whole Mulefa part. It barely contributed to the plot; its role was solely to provide an enjoyable read, and that's it. Now, there's the question: But how were Lyra and Will supposed to meet with Mary so that she can tell Lyra the marzipan story? Simple: It could have happened in her own world, anywhere, or maybe she could even reach Asriel's fortress somehow and provide a new reason for Lyra and Will to go there.

There was also the mission of that priest, father Gomez, which was added without a purpose. Everyone has a grudge against Lyra, the whole world wants a piece of her, but this subplot failed to deliver. Not only that it had absolutely no impact on the story, but the threat represented by Father Gomez made no connection with Lyra in the first place. At no point in this priests search did she feel endangered, which was the whole point of it. So I'm asking myself: When armies come after her, zeppelins and samoyeds and the Magisterium and everything else, was it very necessary to provide another subplot to make us fear for her safety?

The whole series has elements which are ambiguous. The Magisterium does have an impact on the world, but it's never detailed so that it matters, the General Oblation Board kidnapped kids to do what with them? Asriel decided to take down the Authority on a whim, which led to an unfinished war that was supposed to change something we did not know about in the first place(supposedly, the Magisterium was bad, but its actions were never actually detailed)

[Jaya]

You make some really interesting points, and I will reply properly, I promise. But I think I might do so after I'm done re-reading Northern Lights for The Book Club this month.... That way it will be more fresh in my mind, and I'm better placed to answer - instead of with vague memories of details.

[Valrad]

Even vague details worked should they spark a discussion, but of course, I will wait for you. I haven't nitpicked the subplots of each book, but I feel that Pullman either likes to leave us in the dark to prove that you don't actually need a reason to do something and it is all fate's choice(the predestination theory; remember how Pullman repeated the part where Lyra wouldn't be in the retiring room, and Asriel would have been poisoned?), or he just considered them optional and not interesting, or useful, enough to detail them further.

[Jaya]

There is no explanation at all why they were actually performing intercision, it's more of a clutter of possibilities and theories, but a light as day explanation? Nope.

In the first book, I feel like we're only really privy to the story of Lyra (I don't really recall if it's strictly in a third person limited narrative)...and in the second, we only see where Will and Lyra are (I think?). I distinctly remember thinking that in The Amber Spyglass it was different, because we got to see scenes independent of Will and Lyra.

So...if we only hear and see what Lyra can hear and see in Northern Lights, then I feel like we're given vague information because Lyra is given vague information. The things she does find out about Dust and intercision are mainly through eavesdropping (The Retiring Room, and when she hears about her being the girl the witches talk about...I can't even remember who it was that was talking about that) and heresay (the Gyptians?). Few people actually tell Lyra what's going on, and I don't think we hear any conversations entirely separate of Lyra's whereabouts. So, I think that's what I attribute the uncertainty and vagueness of our knowledge to regarding those things. In addition to that, perhaps it's not even that clear to the adults in the story what exactly it is they're experimenting with...they know Dust exists...but the exact nature of it is "a clutter of possibilities and theories" even to them, and that in a world where the Church is trying to suppress knowledge of it. Discussion of it is limited, and vague....and there is no clear explanation, you're right... But that's part of the story, and part of the world, and part of Lyra's understanding of the situation... that's what I think, anyway.

I could have read it totally wrong, and as I said my memory's really bad, so I may revise this after I'm done re-reading Northern Lights.

[Valrad]

That's very true. The first book is more of a third person POV of Lyra, and because the plot follows her, we can't really know what everyone is up to, but in book 3, things change, and I personally felt that the story went from a single POV to a multitude of POVs mixed together, such as Will's and Lyra's in the same chapter for example.

You make some very good points, but I didn't expect a full blown explanation, more like a little insight on what actually happens, like the purpose. You don't start performing intercision on kids just because you had this crazy idea, and I don't think the General Oblation Board would have wasted so many resources and do those dastardly things just because of speculation. They were up to something, and this suggestion stems from what the researchers told Mrs. Coulter about how the process improved and how their new methods were more efficient. I'm not questioning the information, I'm asking about the purpose of it all.

[Anoria]

The whole General Oblation Board subplot was the heartbeat of the novel. Around it, the other subplots revolve, such as Iorek Byrnison and his predicament and the rest. At first, it's pretty straight forward and everyone knows what Gobblers do, but when you finish reading the book, and ultimately the series, you can't help but ask? What was their purpose in the first place? There is no explanation at all why they were actually performing intercision, it's more of a clutter of possibilities and theories, but a light as day explanation? Nope.

I've always chosen to take the Bolvangar staff's explanation at nearly face value for this. Their research equated Dust with original sin. Perform the intercision, daemon never settles, innocence never gives way to knowledge, the church wins. This of course doesn't explain the severed staff, since the impression given by the research is that the procedure was relatively newly developed, and based on the above explanation, intercision of adults wouldn't produce the desired effect since they had already been tainted by the Dust. It also doesn't explain how they expect society to function once it's full of adults who maintain their childhood innocence. Presumably the authorities of the Magisterium would select some children every year/generation to grow up normally, sacrificing their souls in order to lead the ever-more-sheeplike people. But that's a tangent.

The Mulefa to me were more necessary than you seem to have felt they were. I think they illustrated another race of sentient, Dust-ful beings (in addition to Gallivespians and presumably the bears [hm, analyzing the Dust presence around bear cubs would have been interesting]) who understand that the multiverse is in danger. Without the titular Spyglass she made in their world, Mary wouldn't have seen the torrent of Dust pouring out of the world, and I think without that imagery we would all have found it even harder to come to terms with the fact that only one window could be left open.

I saw no real point to the Gomez subplot either. He and Balthamos were loose ends that tied each other up, I guess (forgive me if I have those details wrong, it's been years since I read TAS). The idea of preparatory penance added another facet to the creatively justified evils of the Magisterium, I suppose.

In a similar vein as the subplots, the Intention Craft bugged me. It seemed inadequately explained (I mean, obviously we couldn't know exactly how it worked since it was a fantastical invention, but I feel it could have tied in better with the other fantastical inventions in the story) and like it was thrown in for the sake of people having a convenient method of travel.

[Peter]

In a similar vein as the subplots, the Intention Craft bugged me. It seemed inadequately explained (I mean, obviously we couldn't know exactly how it worked since it was a fantastical invention, but I feel it could have tied in better with the other fantastical inventions in the story) and like it was thrown in for the sake of people having a convenient method of travel.

We know (at least I think we know - I can't cite a source at present) that PP cut around 200pp from TAS when preparing it for publication. I can't help wondering what justifications and fillings-in were left on the cutting room floor.

I don't like the Intention Craft either. I think it (and the M-world setup in general) demonstrate that PP hadn't fully absorbed the underlying methodologies of SF when he wrote TAS. He'd opened the SF box of toys but didn't quite understand how, or why, they work. I'm reminded rather of Doris Lessing's Canopus in Argos series, which had similar issues.

[Jaya]

You make some very good points, but I didn't expect a full blown explanation, more like a little insight on what actually happens, like the purpose. You don't start performing intercision on kids just because you had this crazy idea, and I don't think the General Oblation Board would have wasted so many resources and do those dastardly things just because of speculation. They were up to something, and this suggestion stems from what the researchers told Mrs. Coulter about how the process improved and how their new methods were more efficient. I'm not questioning the information, I'm asking about the purpose of it all.

I'm in the process of reading the book at the moment, and there are chunks of it that aren't from Lyra's [sort of] perspective...more than I remembered. Anyhow, the purpose of intercision isn't really clearly stated, no. As I see it, Dust is seen as something bad by...the Church? Dust is attracted to adults but not children, so they come to equate Dust to mean a loss of innocence, a fall from grace...and thereby perhaps associate it with Original Sin. Through intercision, the child will never hit puberty properly/their daemon won't settle (maybe?) and thus their innocence is saved... Except obviously, they end up not really human once their daemons are cut away. This is a bit vague and more my conjecture - but I think that's maybe part of it anyway? I'm still only halfway through the book.

I assume they started the experiments because of the (supposedly?) recent revelations/studies about Dust, for example with that photogram solution Lord Asriel used to take the picture of the man and child (not sure it was him that took the picture, but anyway).

On the "new methods were more efficient", I think that's just referring to the guillotine form of intercision...perhaps there were earlier methods that took longer and were therefore more horrific and painful, it's a horrid sort of torture. The guillotine's intercision is very quick.

It's not clear how long intercision had really been going on...by which I mean, perhaps it had been done in the past (whether by the Church or someone else), or if it was an ancient practice done by anyone else (besides witches) that was common knowledge. The process of intercision doesn't *seem* to be common knowledge as something that was ever practised, as far as I can tell, or there might have been more rumours about it among people/the Gyptians (they had rumours of children cut in half and sewn together, but I think that was more physical than human/daemon intercision...which was never specified).

Hope some of that made sense.

[Jaya]

Right...double post, sorry. Am nearing the end of the book now, so thought I'd add a few quotations that might help us to understand.

The Consul said, "I have heard the phrase the Maystadt Process in connection with this matter. I think they use that in order to avoid calling what they do by its proper name. I have also heard the word intercision, but what it refers to I could not say."

At no point in the book do people guess (that we know of) that the Gobblers/GOB are separating the children from their daemons. It's fairly unimaginable as a concept or suggestion that that's what the experiments in the North are. The Witch Consul, Dr Lanselius, also has no idea to what they're referring - so we can probably assume that either it's not really been done/investigated before (maybe because it seems morally wrong, but the Church in NL support Mrs Coulter's experiments, don't they, so they're obviously not against it if they feel it's helping to understand Dust and its evils...greater good, and all that) or just that its never been referred to by those terms before. I think the former is more likely.

"All I can tell you is that where there are priests, there is fear of Dust. Mrs Coulter is not a priest, of course, but she is a powerful agent of the Magisterium, and it was she who set up the Oblation Board and persuaded the Church to pay for Bolvangar, because of her interest in Dust."

The Station in Bolvangar is set up to experiment with Dust, to investigate Dust. They seem to know so little about it that perhaps they don't entirely know what they're looking for with the experiments either, just that they're looking for something. The Church need to investigate it to see whether it's something that they should be quashing all knowledge of, that's how they seem to work in Lyra's world.

"During the years of puberty they [children] begin to attract Dust more strongly, and it settles on them as it suttles on adults...The Magisterium decided that Dust was the physical evidence for original sin.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and your daemons shall assume their true forms, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

According to the L-world bible, The Fall of Man...is why daemons stop changing. I suppose the Church wanted to find a way to reverse it, and the intercision experiments were their way of trying to investigate if that could be done, if they could stop people's daemons from changing then they thought they could bring an end to the existence of sin and shame.

"And when Rusakov discovered Dust, at last there was a physical proof that something happened when innocence changed into experience."

Again, supporting what I said before. The Church wanted to banish Original Sin by stopping puberty (which they equate with a loss of innocence)...daemons stopping changing is the main/obvious physical manifestation of puberty in L-World, and perhaps the Church were even hypothesising that daemons caused the loss of innocence/puberty/the Fall...in which case they should be separated from their human - in order to stop this from happening.

EDIT: Bah, I really shouldn't respond to this as I'm reading. It seems this chapter basically explains the whole thing (in a sense)

"She guessed that the two things that happen at adolescence might be connected: the change in one's daemon and the fact that Dust began to settle. Perhaps if the daemon were separated from the body, we might never be subject to Dust - to original sin. The question was whether it was possible to separate the daemon and body without killing the person."

(Apologies if I ended up repeating myself too much.)

[Kansas Person]

There's something very inconsistant about Mrs. Coulter. Her own love life was "eventful", to say the least, but she seems to object to children having what were called "unclean thoughts" at the Catholic grade school I had the misfortune of attending many years ago.

Pullman seems to equate puberty, attracting Dust, and having your daemon settle. He's in favor of all of these. Mrs. Coulter seems to have no regrets about anything, including her love life, which is inconsistant with her actions in committing intercision on children.

What is Mrs. Coulter thinking? She's certainly evil, but her motivations are a mystery. When I saw the movie, the scene at Bolvangr (spelling?) in which she spoke with Lyra about intercission seemed to emphasize her inconsistancy.

[Jaya]

I think it's implied (or maybe stated) somewhere, that while Mrs Coulter was working for the Church, her motivations were not the same...or even perhaps the opposite of the Church's intentions. Her and Lord Asriel were (at some point? I don't recall?) together, and supporting the same cause...they didn't want to obliterate Dust...

I don't know, and I'm making no sense. Will find the quotation from the end of NL when Lord Asriel mentions Mrs Coulter was trying to exercise her power by opening the Station at Bolvangar. I'm not sure how clear it is what her intentions really were though, maybe I'll find more supporting quotations as I read the rest of the trilogy.

EDITED TO ADD QUOTATIONS (bold is my own):

"Mrs Coulter is not a priest, of course, but she is a powerful agent of the Magisterium, and it was she who set up the Oblation board and persuaded the Church to pay for Bolvangar, because of her interest in Dust. We can't understand her feelings about it."

"The General Oblation Board... Your mother's gang. Clever of her to spot the chance of setting up her own power base, but she's a clever woman, as I dare say you've noticed........You see, your mother's always been ambitious for power. At first she tried to get it in the normal way, through marriage, but that didn't work, as I think you've heard. So she had to turn to the Chutch. Naturally she couldn't take the route a man could have taken - priesthood and so on - it had to be unorthodox; she had to set up her own order, her own channels of influence, and work through that. It was a good move to specialise in Dust. Everyone was frightened of it; no one knew what to do; and when she offered to direct an investigation, the Magisterium was so relieved they backed her with money and resources of all kinds."

[Kansas Person]

Mrs. Coulter is definitely power-hungry and in Lyra's world, the only way she can gain power is through the Magisterium. But why does she attempt to gain power by doing things to children that she would never have done to herself? And how does intercission gain her power? She doesn't seem to be in the least religiously devout. She seems to be using the Magisterium as a way to gain power and nothing more.

We know she is "evil", but this doesn't explain anything. It is rare for people to set out to do evil and most of the evil in the world is done by people who think that what they are doing is "good" in some twisted way. Even Hitler and Stalin didn't think of themselves as doing evil, but rather good.

Mrs Coulter is a puzzle to me. While reading the books, I find her believeable, but afterwords, I'm left wondering.

[Jaya]

But why does she attempt to gain power by doing things to children that she would never have done to herself?

There's a thread here which considers Mrs Coulter's ability to be far away from her daemon, as if she's a witch (or perhaps she's undergone intercision, and the process just made her more cold and calculating)... certainly in re-reading NL, I think it's heavily implied that Mrs Coulter can be further away from her daemon than is considered natural.

[Kansas Person]

Jaya, thank your for suggesting the thread. I've read it and learned of things I missed in my own reading of the books. There have been so many postings on this Forum that I cannot know of everything that is there. I've been looking at the new postings and posting myself whenever I see something I want to comment on.

It seems that in stories, the villains are often more interesting than the heroes. Iago is much more interesting than Othello. Shakespeare's Scottish play really doesn't have a hero, but the title character is a magnificent villain. The same is true of Richard III.

In H.D.M., Mrs. Coulter is both intriguing and very scary, a wonderfully imagined villainess. Maybe I should reread the trilogy, paying special attention to Mrs. Coulter and the other villains.

[Jaya]

It may be worth noting, that while she was comfortable doing it to children (or at least....arranging for it to be done to children) she was NOT comfortable with it happening to Lyra, so on some level she must have been aware that it was cruel and horrible and wrong - for the mostpart she has little regard for the children or their feelings, and has no trouble with turning them into shadows of their former selves for the sake of....what? Power? Finding out more about Dust?

Another thread that may interest you is this one, discussing people's favourite villains.