The Republic of Heaven

[SOLmenta]

What is the Republic of Heaven?

At the end, Lyra says that she and Pan are going to have to build the Republic of Heaven.

Is this a sort of party (like the Oblation Board, or the Church), which will protect the window cut from the land of the dead? (The window that frees ghosts into the living world.)

[Dante]

It's not meant to be taken literally. It's just a way of saying that humanity has to create 'heaven' together, they have to make their own lives as full as possible.

[jessia]

it's an alternate to the church's notion of the kingdom of heaven.

[Jamie]

it's an internet forum





predictable, you say?

[Will]

We'd be in the money if that was the entire message of the HDM trilogy.. Pullman could give a link in Lyra's last words.

[Melancholy Man]

It's a shamefully under-frequented Blogspot. It's also relates to the idea of common ownership of land and wealth held by the 17th century agitator and Christian radical, Gerrard Winstanley.

The idea of the Republic of Heaven is to put human affairs in charge of the human spirit, and not keep apologizing to an old god.

[SOLmenta]

I <I>was</i> thinking for a little while, that maybe it was what the Church called The Kingdom of Heaven.
But that would mean that Heaven and Hell were seperated, wouldn't it?

PP's idea, or at least what he wrote, is that people are not judged and seperated into different worlds after their death; they all went to the land of the dead. With the Harpies and all.

And what makes this so wonderful, is that since Will and Lyra opened a window from the land of the dead into the real world, that everyone, regardless of their sins and good deeds, are able to become part of the rest of the physical world.

So creating a Heaven would mean that there was also a Hell, and this completely defeats the purpose of having the window from the world of the dead into the physical world.

P.S. Thanks for everyone who responded, I really appreciate it.

[Dante]

So creating a Heaven would mean that there was also a Hell, and this completely defeats the purpose of having the window from the world of the dead into the physical world.

Why would there have to be a hell? PP's talking about making life as good as possible, there doesn't have to be some sort of horrible other world to balance things out.

[Melancholy Man]

I don't think the 'Republic' of Heaven was envisioned as an actual - albeit, escatological - place by Pullman or Winstanley's chronicler, David Boulton, whom I believed coined the phrase. It relates to humans' making the best of what they have here on earth - in an interview, Pullman said that "the king" i.e. God "is dead" . Do not appoint a new one.

[Enitharmon]

or Winstanley's chronicler, David Boulton, whom I believed coined the phrase.

It was Gerrard Winstanley himself, not Boulton, who coined the phrase.

[jessia]

i think someone should write a wikipedia entry about us.

[edit]nevermind, i've started it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_of_Heaven

contribute.

now.

[Enitharmon]

i think someone should write a wikipedia entry about us.

Great suggestion, someone!

Edit: Actually, there is already an entry for Gerrard Winstanley

I guess that would be a good place to start. I'll sleep on it and see what I can come up with on Republic of Heaven. Meanwhile:



You know, I've only made one small impression on Wikipedia and I felt overawed at doing that! Under the entry for Oscar Wilde I c ortrected the common misapprehension that Oscar wrote The Ballad of Aldbrickham Gaol while incarcerated in HM Remand Centre and Young Offenders Institution, Aldbrickham. He didn't - he wrote that afterwards in Paris. What he wrote while inside was De Profundis.

[Melancholy Man]

or Winstanley's chronicler, David Boulton, whom I believed coined the phrase.

It was Gerrard Winstanley himself, not Boulton, who coined the phrase.

Well, I did say I *believed* it was Boulton. And Boulton believes it was Boulton. I believe. I don't have my copy of 'Gerrard Winstanley and the Republic of Heaven' to hand.

(And I should have said "whom I believe it was who coined".)

[lucvd]

What is the heavenly republic Lyra and Will has to build? Maybe they can meat there again. Please Pullman, write a fourth part! OR ELSE I WILL!!!!! I need a fourth part

Edit: Title uncapitalised and depunctuated to spare general sanity levels, and pointless poll removed as half the options are the same thing worded differently.meat, haha

[Ian]

D'y'think that they'll be having their steaks medium or rare?

EDIT: try using the spell checker

[Blossom]

I thought it was just trying to make the world(s) a better place, without the EVIL dictator that is God. I never thought of it as literally trying to build a city. Although I've only read that book once, many moons ago now, so I might be remembering wrong.

[Mr Anderson]

D'y'think that they'll be having their steaks medium or rare?

EDIT: try using the spell checker

Perhaps you should make a poll for it?


The Republic of Heaven isn't a building, or anything physical in nature, it is an ideal that we must all strive to.

[Aimee]

well. i may be a first timer and probably an imature person but i think he means the as in fight for your freedom and don't let people boss you arond and stand up and things like that
hehe

[mod edit] teenager, if you please, avoid text speech for the sake of other forum-goers. check out the forum guide and if you have any questions, address them here.

[Storm-Lily]

I have to say, I never even once considered it being a building, but it is kind of an interesting concept.

I always thought it was more a state of mind, almost like buddhists "enlightenment" something you reach yourself, and is simply a state of being.

[Dark Sentry]

A way of life I allways thought.........