Torre degli Angeli and Giacomo Paradisi

[Hyperion's Child]

Giacomo Paradisi told Will and Lyra that the Guild of the Tower of Angels created the Subtle Knife to explore the bonds between the smallest sub-atomic particles. But why did they build the Torre degli Angeli for, anyway? Most obviously, it was probably for meetings and such, but what else could it have been used for? And why would they need all those drugs? Specifically the poisonous ones...

Also, what do you think his name, Giacomo Paradisi means? Paradisi is "of paradise" in Latin; Giacomo is Italian, coming from the English names Jacob and James, both of which mean, "one who trips up another and takes his place." Do you think it might mean, "one who trips up another and takes his place in paradise"? Meaning he "trips up" Will by allowing him to obtain and use the knife, and by killing himself, finally gets eternal rest in "paradise"?

Just some thoughts.

[Celestial Madness]

a tower is a good tactical shape for defending something, like the knife.
having an elevated position and all.

plus pullman probably didn't think a shed outback would be a good spot for the most powerful weapon on earth. a tower makes it sound better.

[eloquent]

The guild wasn't just about the knife. Remember that they were basically an elite team of scientists doing experiments, and at the time when the guild was formed, a tower would have seemed the most practical building.

[viper]

the drugs would be for the scientists experiments. i wonder if pulman did think about it that much, he might have just liked the name, good theory though, i like

[WindsFluteOfTheSky]

Thats an intresting thought on the name, I belive that Pullman did much research for evrything and that "The Book of Dust" will show us what the tower really means.

[sam]

I think PP must have choosen the name delibratly (hehe, i cant spell) and the tower was build back in the middle ages of the people in the C-World, I would have thought, would have used it to protect the beaches when wars raged. I think that it was one of many towers and it was fate that the knife was in that one tower and that Will would get it.

[Enitharmon]

Paradisi is "of paradise" in Latin; Giacomo is Italian, coming from the English names Jacob and James,

From the English? How insular can you get! It's the Italian version of the biblical name rendered as Jacob in English, presumably from the Aramaic as Jacob was an Aramean. The Arabic version is something like Yaqub.

[Melancholy Man]

Cheers, Rosie! I thought it came from Chaimes, the skipper of the Vital Spark!

[Enitharmon]

Cheers, Rosie! I thought it came from Chaimes, the skipper of the Vital Spark!

And I've spent all these years labouring under the misapprehension that the skipper of the Fital Spark was called Peter Handy. :/

Ah well, I'll just stick to writing stories for McPhail.

[Melancholy Man]

And I've spent all these years labouring under the misapprehension that the skipper of the Fital Spark was called Peter Handy. :/

Not after Cpt "Sunny Chaimes" Queeg staged the mutiny, and hanged him from the highest yard arm in Helensburgh.

[Danny Barefoot]

Vital spark?

Giacoma doesn't seem to have much spiritual awareness, so it's an interesting name. He represents sucsession, since he must've taken the knife from someone else before. Maybe paradise is what the philosophers wanted to create on earth, and how run down he is shows what's happened to that dream.

[Dante]

That's what I think. These are people who named the tower 'Torri Degli Angeli', which I assume means 'Tower of Angels' or something to that effect, so it's not impossible to assume they wanted paradise using the knife. Idea- they stole from other worlds using it, which they used to make their world rich- more like a paradise! Probably. Also, the spectres are afraid of the knife, and to live without fear of spectres must seem like a paradise, in a way. Except that it brings with it fear of others trying to steal the knife, which sort of reflects what is obviously Pullman's idea of Eden- tainted.

Giacomo Paradisi- One who trips up another (fights for the knife) and takes their place (becomes the bearer) in paradise (in a world where spectres are no problem).

Whew. On fire today.

Quick question- in the American version, is it spelt 'Specters'?

[Enitharmon]

Vital spark?

Stories by Neil Munro, published in a Glasgow newspaper in the early part of the last century, about an old Clyde puffer and the sometimes underhand exploits of its bizarre crew under skipper Peter MacFarlane, aka Para Handy.

[Will]

I've always thought the tower was a slight mirror of the traditional wizard's tower.

Quick question- in the American version, is it spelt 'Specters'?

Yup.

[Dante]

How incredibly.............. I can't even think of a word.

[Max]

Abhorrent? Repugnant?

[Danny Barefoot]

Are you in a bad mood at the moment, Max?

I've always thought the tower was a slight mirror of the traditional wizard's tower

And a phallic symbol, of course...

[eloquent]

Of course. Symbolising the power of man...

[Enitharmon]

Of course. Symbolising the power of man...

And with more than a hint of the Tower of Babel about it, I fancy.

[Max]

Of course. Symbolising the power of man...

And with more than a hint of the Tower of Babel about it, I fancy.

Oh lord, you've got me thinking now. Could the Spectres be divine retribution for transgressing beyond the bounds of rightful human domain? The Authority has sufficient power to direct all human ghosts to the World of the Dead and imprison them there, he could well have the power to do so.

God sundered humanity through disparate languages because they attempted to escape their mortal realm and effectively threatened intrusion on Heaven. By cutting, or moving otherwise, between dimensions Pullman's humans were doing the same, and, in doing so, creating the opportunity to form an army of sufficient might to challenge the Kingdom of Heaven - just as Asriel did.

There are a great many more humans involved in the His Dark Materials case, so a more dramatic approach is required to divide them - turning those around the windows to silent, immobile indifference - and Pullman's God is arguably even more vindictive than the Bible's God, if that's even possible.

Here's the killer, though: the Spectre's fight on TKoHs side against TRoH in the great battle! (And it could also explain why Marisa is able to control them: her explanation always seemed a little suspect, as though there was really more to it than she knew.)

Anyway. This could all be coincidence.