The Republic of Heaven

End of TAS: Will and Mary go off to live together. Mary is learning how to see her daemon.
Is Will's daemon still visible??? I never really picked up on that...

And if so, they should have had Mary find her daemon in Lyra's world so she wouldn't have to do the eye trick.

but will couldn't see his daemon in lyra's world? balthamos had to pretend to be his daemon when he was in the himalayas so that they wouldn't freak out and stuff.

Yes, I understand that. But Will's father went to Lyra's world, and his dæmon appeared. So, perhaps it only works with adults then. And if that's the case, if Mary visited Lyra's world, she should have been able to see her dæmon as well.

But anyways, that's not really bugging me.
What I want to know:
At the end of TAS, is Will still able to see his dæmon when he goes back into his world?

does it actually say that john parry's daemon just appeared though? it could be that he discovered it after some time in lyra's world.

no it just says he found her after arriving in lyra's world. maybe she escaped when holes were drilled in his head

If Will continues going to school, his dæmon could really come in handy.
Teacher: Will, take your test..NOW
Will: Nooo!
*dæmon jumps out and scares the teacher nearly to death*

The unfortunate thing is since his dæmon is a cat...well...that's not very scary. *sigh*

Would people in our world see Kirjava though?

aceblade wrote:End of TAS: Will and Mary go off to live together. Mary is learning how to see her dæmon.
Is Will's dæmon still visible??? I never really picked up on that...

And if so, they should have had Mary find her dæmon in Lyra's world so she wouldn't have to do the eye trick.

Frankly I think Mr Pullman got his knickers in a twist here. And he knows it - I believe he has admitted as much in interviews.

John Parry's daemon just appears when he enters that universe. Will's has to be torn from him by physical separation. And that business with Mary's daemon just seems to me like something that seemed a good idea as he was racing towards the end of the whole 1,300 pages.

Similarly with visibility of daemons - he doesn't differentiate between Will's physically separated daemon and Mary's internal daemon when we get that guff about both of them not being visible in "our" universe. External daemons seem to be normally visible whatever world they are in and whateever world the observer come from. Will, after all, sees Pantalaimon straight away in tghe Cittagazze world.

John Parry's daemon just appears when he enters that universe.

That is never said. She probably appeared either when he became a shaman or when the effects of being in another world were starting to wear on her.

And that business with Mary's daemon just seems to me like something that seemed a good idea as he was racing towards the end of the whole 1,300 pages.

That might have been a hint that people in our world can find their dæmons...

External daemons seem to be normally visible whatever world they are in and whateever world the observer come from.

Does Will ever see a dæmon from any world other than Lyra's before he can see Kirjava?

aceblade wrote:The unfortunate thing is since his dæmon is a cat...well...that's not very scary. *sigh*

well it's supposed to be a pretty big cat isn't it?

AySz88 wrote:Does Will ever see a dæmon from any world other than Lyra's before he can see Kirjava?

doesn't he see sir charles' daemon? or was that lyra...
but i think he sees ama's daemon when he goes to rescue lyra.

Both of them are from Lyra's world, though.

but lyra's world is the only world with daemons.

The point was, only external daemons from Lyra's world are visible to everyone.

Does Will ever see a dæmon from any world other than Lyra's before he can see Kirjava?

Yes. The golden monkey. Kaisa and other witch daemons. Along with Lyra I think these are the only people from Lyra's world he meets, apart from Sir Charles who keeps his daemon hidden up his sleeve.

AySz88 wrote:The point was, only external daemons from Lyra's world are visible to everyone.

Yup, I'd go along with that. I'd add "in any world", as Will first sees Pan in Cittagazze. The fun starts with Kirjava and Mary's (unnamed) daemon. Mary's daemon is easy actually - he's just like any other daemon from our world, only visible under special circumstances.

It's trickier with Kirjava. There's no suggestion that, once she's been separated from Will in the World of the Dead, she's any different in nature from Pan, even though she wasn't first manifested in L-world. Nor will we ever know if John Parry's daemon would have been visible if he'd ever returned to our world. Mary sees both Pan and Kirjava in mulefa-world if I remember right.

I found myself wondering who could see Kirjava in our world. Will, Mary and Lyra, yes. Anybody else? All L-worlders? Only trained daemon-viewers? I fudged it in my stories and made it possible for K to choose whether she was seen and heard by native L-worlders (Lizzie, Henry), but unlikely that she would be seen by natives of our world (Greaves and Miss Morley don't see her; Judy does, but she's a special case)

Ceres

I think I had a bit of a brainstorm earlier today. Or maybe I was just tired.

I forgot that Will has presumably met quite a few people in the L-World, seeing as he makes quite an epic journey (several weeks presumably) across it. There is Otyets Semyon in Kholodnoye, and his sister, though I can't remember if their daemons are even mentioned. There are the people in the town where he links up with Iorek, and presumably the crew of the ship, though no reference is made to their daemons and why should there be? And then there's Ama, and from memory I can't remember where there's a specific mention of his seeing her daemon.

He does, I think, see the golden monkey, and the monkey sees him. before Will and Mrs Coulter see each other.

Will is of course aware that people in the L-World have daemons, because he has asked Balthamos to impersonate one for him. I'm pretty sure that, armed with this knowledge, he would be looking out for people's daemons all the time and would remark on not seeing them.

How many of those St Trinian's avatars have you got, En?

Now there's a thought - St T's as a certain girls' boarding school in Oxford...

CW

Ceres Wunderkind wrote:How many of those St Trinian's avatars have you got, En?

Now there's a thought - St T's as a certain girls' boarding school in Oxford...

You think I haven't thought of doing Lyra at school? Though I was thinking more Brent-Dyer than Searl...

Only got the one St T's avatar - but I did try out a Maisie from The Perishers for a day or two. What I want is a picture of me but none of my Blake books is illustrated and the only one I could find on the 'net was a family group with 'im indoors, Los, and that rather troublesome son of mine, Orc...

Enitharmon wrote:Only got the one St T's avatar - but I did try out a Maisie from The Perishers for a day or two. What I want is a picture of me but none of my Blake books is illustrated and the only one I could find on the 'net was a family group with 'im indoors, Los, and that rather troublesome son of mine, Orc...

A google for enitharmon blake picture produces quite a lot of usable results. You'd have to photoshop a bit to get rid of that dysfunctional family of yours, though.

Ceres