The Republic of Heaven

The Republic of Heaven on Earth I always thought was trying to do just that: Create Heaven \ Paradise \ Nirvana \ Valhalla etc on earth as both Will and Lyra now know that unlike many organised religions would have us believe, there is nothing after death (well, after getting out of the world of the dead). It is the here and now and what people do within their lives which matters.

They are charged with telling others of this and bringing about such change - almost a "Spiritual Revolution" if you will - to increase the ammounts of Dust in the world and to make the world a better place..

Or at least thats what I understood about the Republic of Heaven.

The Republic of Heaven on Earth I always thought was trying to do just that: Create Heaven \ Paradise \ Nirvana \ Valhalla etc on earth as both Will and Lyra now know that unlike many organised religions would have us believe, there is nothing after death (well, after getting out of the world of the dead). It is the here and now and what people do within their lives which matters.

They are charged with telling others of this and bringing about such change.

How were they supposed to tell people? I agree they had a sort of mission in life to build the Republic of Heaven, but I thought they were supposed to do so indirectly, through living full lives and doing worthwhile stuff to further human experience, not preach about the Republic of Heaven on Earth to get converts. Wouldn't that go against the whole freedom of thought thing?

How were they supposed to tell people? I agree they had a sort of mission in life to build the Republic of Heaven, but I thought they were supposed to do so indirectly, through living full lives and doing worthwhile stuff to further human experience, not preach about the Republic of Heaven on Earth to get converts. Wouldn't that go against the whole freedom of thought thing?

I agree, it's not about creating something physical, rather, producing the best world that they can for themselves, here and now. I hate to discuss a book with a quote from television (albeit, intelligent television) but there's a quote from Joss Whedon's Angel which says:

"If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters… then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today...All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because I don't think people should suffer as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world. "

Will and Lyra aren't charged with making converts, with gathering the worlds masses and preaching to them about the Republic of Heaven, but rather they exist to help. To live their lives to the fullest, and to interrupt the lives of others with small acts of kindness. If nothing that they do has any bearing on an afterlife, then the only thing that has bearing in their one and only life is what they do with it...and as long as they're happy and satisfied with what they're doing, they've created the Republic of Heaven on their own.

(Apologies in advance if that seems convoluted, it's late, I'm tired...and I may come back to it tomorrow.)

How were they supposed to tell people? I agree they had a sort of mission in life to build the Republic of Heaven, but I thought they were supposed to do so indirectly, through living full lives and doing worthwhile stuff to further human experience, not preach about the Republic of Heaven on Earth to get converts. Wouldn't that go against the whole freedom of thought thing?

I agree, it's not about creating something physical, rather, producing the best world that they can for themselves, here and now. I hate to discuss a book with a quote from television (albeit, intelligent television) but there's a quote from Joss Whedon's Angel which says:

"If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters… then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today...All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because I don't think people should suffer as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world. "

Will and Lyra aren't charged with making converts, with gathering the worlds masses and preaching to them about the Republic of Heaven, but rather they exist to help. To live their lives to the fullest, and to interrupt the lives of others with small acts of kindness. If nothing that they do has any bearing on an afterlife, then the only thing that has bearing in their one and only life is what they do with it...and as long as they're happy and satisfied with what they're doing, they've created the Republic of Heaven on their own.

(Apologies in advance if that seems convoluted, it's late, I'm tired...and I may come back to it tomorrow.)

I think your right, though that isn't the succinct discription I've heard.

The Republic of Heaven dosn't exist. It can't exist. its an diea-an idea of the perfect world, but you have to build it wear you are, as best you can by helping people and improving things-by living your life as best you can and getting other people to do the same thing.

I hate to discuss a book with a quote from television (albeit, intelligent television) but there's a quote from Joss Whedon's Angel

You're a Joss Whedon fan!!!!!!



It got me through highschool!

I miss firefly

I still haven't seen every episode of Firefly, but I've seen Serenity. I need to watch from about episode 6 or 7, I think.

Anyway, I'd better get this back on topic...What were we talking about? Building the Republic of Heaven?

Yes, it's something to be worked on every day, but in an unconscious way, I think, similar to how Lyra (initially) read the aletheiometer. Because if all your life is focused on Building The Republic Of Heaven, it isn't a full life. You have to have experiences, and let things happen, but be aware, and constantly thinking, and constantly exploring, and constantly wondering, and constantly exercising the mind.

It's more like a philosophy of life, I'd say. An attitude towards the world.

Yes, but an active philosophy, a philosophy that is about doing, not being. Unconsciously and yet with awareness and joy to be alive, conscious and experienced.

Wikipedia says that it's the idea that we should build a better life for ourselves here on Earth, rater than wait for it in heaven, and that the church's emphasis on the afterlife is a diversion (a lot like Karl Marx, don't you think?).

Personally I agree. Originally, I tihnk it wwas really a republic based in heaven, but that sort of disintegrated when the portals were closed up. As such, it because something you had ot do in your own worlds.

Unforutnately, I don't think it's going to catch on in Lyra's world, what with the Magisterium controlling everything.

Although the Magisterium was weakened, and in the process of transformation, so you never know what will happen. And in any case, Lyra could 'build the Republic of Heaven' without making it obvious what she was doing, just by making a difference in people's lives.

In your opinion, what does Lyra mean when she told Pan that she's going to build the "Republic of Heaven" in the end??

In my opinion, the Idea of the Republic of heaven is to create your own heaven. Doing the things you can in your own world by gaining knowledge and continue obtaining conciseness. Thats the reason the church and the Authority doesnt want dust around. so they can make everything that lives a slave.

Yup. Hence the "we must build the republic of heaven where we are because for us, there is nowhere else." I guess just making the most of life etc because it's all we get.