Feelings on the ending linked to relationships+ introduction

[two_worlds]

Hi all!
I am 18 years old and from Austria. I finished reading the Amber Spyglass about two days ago and my heart still hurts so bad. I read the important passages of the second last chapter over and over again to maybe find some loop holes and I thought I even found one (the way of travelling to another world the way Wills father did). On the next day I decided to look up on google to maybe find a solution on this whole issue. Over the wikipedia article on HDM I found http://www.bridgetothestars.net and after having a nice chat with some guy(or was it a girl?) from Iceland (I don´t remember the name though (well he kinda destroyed my last hope in finding a solution to the Will/Lyra problem by telling me that Wills father didn´t have physical access to the worlds he visited - but it still was a nice chat as the person was very friendly)) I decided to take a look at those forums and found out that this is a really big community.
My other interests beside reading good books are martial arts (Karate mainly), my cat and our three dogs (Golden Retrievers), Anime, constructing web sites and web security (cross site scripting mainly).

I already know that most of you feel sad and depressed about the ending of the third book but generally this community seems to be divided into two groups. The ones that think that the ending was sad but who find that Pullman ended the story in a good way - and the ones that think that the ending was not sad but even heart breaking and who think that Pullman should have ended it without seperating Will and Lyra.

When I reached the end of the Amber Spyglass I just could not believe what Pullman was doing to the readers of this trillogy, since I was hoping there would be a sign of hope for Lyra and Will even on the very last page. This is where it started to hurt badly and it doesn´t seem to end that quickly. In fact I haven´t felt such a bad heartache for a very long time - neither after reading a certain book nor after watching a film with a sad ending. (I think you know to which group I belong.)

I think the reason why I felt that bad is because I haven´t had a girlfriend yet (I know it´s sad - as I am 18). Furthermore I think that Will and Lyra showed me something I have never experienced before, on my own - and then it all broke down.

As my first topic on this board I decided to make a poll which could maybe bring some light into the whole issue. I really used the maximum number of options but I think the poll could show some interesting results IF enough people vote!

So hello to everyone!

[krebbe]

Welcome, two_worlds! That's quite an unconventional welcome thread and HDM post combination!

I finished reading the books at 20 and hadn't had a proper relationship either. I had problems with the ending, but I think that was more because I thought there were technical problems with it that made it seem false and unnatural - the idea that one window could be allowed open permanently but no others could be opened even for a short time seemed particularly hard to accept. I think I've always accepted the plot itself, even though it's sad. I think it could have ended with them staying together without cheapening the plot, especially since everything keeping them apart (daemons getting sick in other worlds, only one window allowed) is all just thrown together at the last minute to conveniently fit the intended plot with all the artistic subtlety of a rampant intention craft. However, separating them has it's own tragic appeal too and certainly makes the books more memorable. My only gripe is that Pullman didn't set it up with better technical reasons. I don't think my opinions were affected by my relationship history, but then it might still affect other people.

Also, you might want to account for gay people in your poll. Not everyone on the forum is straight.

[two_worlds]

Thanks for the reply krebbe!

I think it could have ended with them staying together without cheapening the plot, especially since everything keeping them apart (daemons getting sick in other worlds, only one window allowed) is all just thrown together at the last minute to conveniently fit the intended plot with all the artistic subtlety of a rampant intention craft.

Yeah, that is what I think too, it just all comes together at the very last point of the story . . . ---> which makes the sad ending even more annoying for me . . .

Also, you might want to account for gay people in your poll. Not everyone on the forum is straight.

I really thought about this but unfortunately there are only 16 options allowed and I used all of them.

[Riali]

Welcome!

I was also more than 16 and relationshipless when I finished the book, but I waffle even now, and about whether I think it 's the right ending or not. It breaks my heart, but it's so skillfully done, that it's impossible not to appreciate it.

Why not just change all the "boyfriend/girlfriend" bits to "been in love"or "had a relationship" or something of the sort?

[kincuri]

My response:
I'm 21, Male, had relationships and found the ending sad but okay.

I can understand how hard the ending was to read, it was so tragic. However, I think Pullman took a lot of care to make it moving.

He brought out Lyra's strength. It would have been easy to be tempted to leave a window open into Will's world, to allow them to be together. However she showed so much strength to leave Will and come to the fact that they will forever be separated.
Pullman mentioned the bench in the Botanic Garden, something they would have in common and something to provide some link to eachother.

The way Pullman ended it was brilliant and I was satistified when I finished the triliogy.

[Aletheia Dolorosa]

When I finished the trilogy I was 16 and in the middle of my first relationship. I cried, cried, cried without stopping for three days, then sat down calmly and tried to write a loophole so that I could stop crying. (I think I came up with a very bad, unconvincing reason for Lyra and Will to be able to keep on visiting one another.) I'm 23 now and have had several other relationships since then, and have read the trilogy quite a few times in those seven years, and as I've got older, my reaction to the ending has changed. I still cry (although not for three days) when reading it, and I still appreciate Pullman's emotional heartstrings-tugging just as much as when I first read the book, but after that initial, shocking first reading of the ending, I understood that the tragic ending was necessary.

I wouldn't say that it was more 'realistic', but more 'true'. I can't articulate it any better than that, but there is a kind of literary 'truth' that is not the same as scientific or philosophical truth. This literary truth is connected with whether an author's writing has the power to transport the reader, bind the reader up in the emotions of the story and cause the reader to suspend his/her disbelief, lost in all but the (happy, peaceful, depressing or tragic) beauty of the story. In my mind, the ending of TAS does just that.

I also want to add that I think age/life experience has more to do with reaction to the ending than relationship status.

And welcome!

[MojaveByrd]

IMO Pullman had to end the book this way in order to complete the philosophy he was putting forth, mainly that heaven is where you make it and that's all there is- the here and the now. But, it would have eased our pain somewhat if at least we knew Lyra and Will would meet each other in the Underworld after death. They wouldn't be able to touch each other but they could tell each other (and the Harpies) what they accomplished in their worlds to help establish the Republic of Heaven. And, then together they could have dispersed into the universe.

[Acchon]

I am 17 (18 in november), male, I have had an relationship and I found the ending of HDM very, very sad but nontheless very perfect. It maked sense in a way, and it was beautifull.

[bee]

Welcome, two_worlds!

I'm 18, have been in relationships, and feel that the ending is sad but beautiful. I don't think I would want it changed.

I'm all for happy endings and most of the time, I'd rather a book have one. However, it somehow seemed fitting in this case. It seemed real. Things aren't always perfect in real life, and relationships, no matter how strong, can't always work out. I appreciate that there isn't just a fairytale ending where everyone lives happily ever after.

I don't remember when I first read these books, but I think I was maybe 11 or 12, and I liked the ending then. Not that it didn't make me cry (still does, every time), but some books should do that. I have an instant appreciation for any author that can make me cry since they've managed to strongly enough interweave my emotions and their characters.

Back on topic... I read the books the first time before I'd had any sort of romantic relationship, and have read them several times since throughout and after relationships, and I still feel the ending is best the way it is.

[Bellerophon]

I'm a male who read the books at twenty-two, and I'd seen my stuff thrown to the curb a few times. I don't think Pullman could have ended the trilogy any other way. To allow the children to stay together and lead full lives, he would have had to omit the choice that illuminates the heart of his commentary. It would be as if Styron cut Sophie's choice from Sophie's Choice.

[Ayanna]

Well I'm 23, I have a boyfriend and I liked the ending. Though when I first read it, the ending REALLY bothered me. Not that I didn't like it, just I found it SO tragic, but I love tragic stories. Even the last time I read it, I found myself having difficulty sleeping because of the ending, always really touches me. I was like geez get a grip, just a book lol But yeah it is more than that.

[two_worlds]

It is a week now since I finished TAS. Today I read Lyras Oxford and then I re-read the last few chapters of TAS and again thought about the whole story. I think now even I can accept the ending. In fact the ending indeed does have a pretty meaningful message but I seemed to be kinda blind for it because of my feelings.