The Republic of Heaven

The knife can, as we all know (exept for people still readin HDM) cut through anything but i beleive that that is not the case. If that was the case, then how come whenever will stands between Pan and Lyra the knife dosent sever their connection? I reckon that the REAL sharpest object in the universes of HDM is the silver Guillotine that Mrs Coulter invented to sever daemons from children and the only reason that it can not cut into different worlds is that it lacks the 'negative capability' that Will and Lyra use to work the Knife and the Alethiometer. Or that the silver guillotine does not have the correct type of edge like the knife has,
but that makes no difference, the point is why doesn't the knife sever Lyra and Pan (exept that that would make it an extremely short, 2 book trilogy)

How do you know Will ever comes between Lyra and Pan?

in the Tower of angels, right after the fight with tullio, will recieved the knife and he sat on a chair with Lyra in the room behind him. then Pan came and wait for it, wait for it, HE CAME AROUND WILL AND LICKED HIS HAND!!!!!! and since will had the knife on his lap (i thinK) pan MUST have walked past it. Also at the end of TAS when he eas on the Dunes with lyra ~sniff~ ~sniff~ he stroked Pan so he must have passed the knife to be stroked


and in the world of the dead when pan and lyra seperated he must have passed between them at some point. Which brings up the question, why didnt will accidently kill himself by walking past Kirjava even if they WERE miles away that doesn't matter does it?

Sorry, i Just like proving stuff so i'm kinda desperate to do this. (don't worry, i'm useually wrong)

I think the way the guilotine severs a connection is that it places itself entirely in the way of whatever energy flows between them, whereas the knife, being much smaller, couldn't do this.

Also I think when we talk about the knife being able to cut through anything we really mean anything tangible. You can't actually cut intangible things like electromagnetic waves. You can reflect or absorb them with a solid body but you can't cut them as such because that is not how physics works.

When some people are talking abuot the silver guillotine, they say that it's the material of the thing that severs the connection. However, Lyra does realise how similar the edges of the knife and guillotine are.

Perhaps the knife can cut the connections, but it could be that he has to feel it like he does the notches in the fabric of the universe to cut through? Think- if the guillotine was sharper than the SK, then it could cut through the barriers of the universe too.

the reason why the silver guillotine can sever human from daemon.

the two small 'rooms' that Lyra and Pan are in are completely air tight and there is only one tube connecting the two of them. that means that all the bonds are directed down that tube. if something very sharp like the silver guillotine comes down in the middle of the tube then the bonds are severed because Lyra has no more connections with Pan.

did that make any sense?

Botanic 2004 wrote:the reason why the silver guillotine can sever human from dæmon.

the two small 'rooms' that Lyra and Pan are in are completely air tight and there is only one tube connecting the two of them. that means that all the bonds are directed down that tube. if something very sharp like the silver guillotine comes down in the middle of the tube then the bonds are severed because Lyra has no more connections with Pan.

did that make any sense?

Absoloutely. I see the human-daemon bond as having similar properties to an energy, rather than an elastic band. If there's any way the bond can find round, it will.

But we have to be careful to express clearly that the blade does not cut the bond. It just places itself in the bond's path so that the flow of energy is interrupted and collapses. More like wrapping a mobile phone in aluminium foil than chopping a phone cable with an axe (crappy analogy, I know, but it'll have to do).

eloquent is expressing exactly wht i'm getting at in words i could not think up

I did tell you all that i am mostly wrong.

But when eloquent said


'I think the way the guilotine severs a connection is that it places itself entirely in the way of whatever energy flows between them, whereas the knife, being much smaller, couldn't do this.'

i agree with your statement, but wouldn't the knife as least snag the connection?



By the way, on a different note, Dante said:
'Think- if the guillotine was sharper than the SK, then it could cut through the barriers of the universe too.'

The reason that the guillotine cannot cut through to another world is because there is no one there using negative capability to find the snags in the air.

the knife is described to have two different sides, wich have different uses.. maybe the guilotine lacks the one special side that can cut throgh worlds.....?

Kahlan Wrote:
'the knife is described to have two different sides, wich have different uses.. maybe the guilotine lacks the one special side that can cut throgh worlds.....? '

Good point. Sounds like Mrs Coulter isn't that clever afterall!

mtbanger wrote:i agree with your statement, but wouldn't the knife as least snag the connection?

Why? The energy of the connection between Lyra and Pan would 'flow' around anything that was in its way, whether it was another person, or object, or even a really sharp knife.

Kahlan wrote:the knife is described to have two different sides, wich have different uses.. maybe the guilotine lacks the one special side that can cut throgh worlds.....?

Or it simply lacks a wielder. Remember Will was doing the cutting with his mind too, it was not just the knife.

Mod: Double post deleted

The knife only cuts OBJECTS on one side . the knife might not have been in the right direction

Do you think the world-entering edge of the Knife is supersharp too? Because if it wasn't, it would be rather inconvenient to use for fighting, wouldn't it? Considering that Will might have to keep checking to make sure he's attacking with the supersharp side.

Anyway, the world-entering edge is made of the same metal as the Silver Guillotine right? Maybe it's like Ixia said, the Guillotine lacks a mind behind it.

both sides are extra sharp. i know this because the book says wills mind travels down to the knife to atom wide edge to cut a window.

It's all about Will's intention when he cuts, surely the knife responds to that? It's fairly pointless to argue about the physics of the thing, that's hardly the point at all.

JoefromOxford wrote:It's fairly pointless to argue about the physics of the thing, that's hardly the point at all.

Except that the Knife may well be a metaphor for employing advanced technology to malign or dangerous ends.

That is a little minor plot hole actually... well... not even a minor hole... more of a small ripple in the flow of the story...

When the knife is introduced, one edge is said to be very sharp, the other to have the special power. I don't doubt both edges are super sharp.

The problem comes with Will's intention flowing to the TIP of the knife, and the tip being the most important part in the breaking/fixing of the knife. After the magic-world-slicing-edge is introduced... it never does anything again. It's always the TIP that snags a world, Will's awareness travelling into the single atom at the very end... not down one whole side.

And the tip of the knife is on neither edge... cuz it's the tip.

Ah, I have no idea, it's a fantasy book... a wizard probably did it...

Well what I found kind of annoying was that, no matter how sharp your knife is, you cant plunge it into stone, the stone needs to be able to move out of the way of the knife but to do that you would need enormous strength. Will may have the sharpest edge in the world but he's not strong enough to pry open rock, not with a short little knife at least.

Also, I was wondering why the ghosts weren't being cut as Will walked through them, if it can cut through the veil of a dimension, couldn't in cut throuhg a spectral being like an angel, yes, so why not the souls of the dead as well?

I don't think the bond between a person and their daemon can be cut as easily as slicing something, its probably like trying to cut water, unless you block off all of it, some will get through and keep the current going, wich is why the little knife couldn't sever the connection whereas a huge Guillotine could.