LO: What I've Noticed....

[Giarc1126]

I had read the end of HDM a while ago, and fell for it like a sucker. Somewhere in some corner of my mind I kept thinking that they'd get back together somehow. My bro bought LO on vacation, and I briefly scimmed through it to realize that nothing of Will was mentioned at all. It was almost as if he was just forgotten after only a short time gone, and that everything just sort of faded away... I don't know if this was implied or if I'm just a heart sob idiot... Please respond.

[Naomi Silvertongue]

I had read the end of HDM a while ago, and fell for it like a sucker. Somewhere in some corner of my mind I kept thinking that they'd get back together somehow. My bro bought LO on vacation, and I briefly scimmed through it to realize that nothing of Will was mentioned at all. It was almost as if he was just forgotten after only a short time gone, and that everything just sort of faded away... I don't know if this was implied or if I'm just a heart sob idiot... Please respond.

He was mentioned once, when Lyra was wondering what would he do... sort of like WWJD? only WWWD?... he was mentioned though.... Though, seeing as how the title of the book was Lyra's Oxford, it was supposed to be about her..

You can always wait until like 2006, for The Book of Dust to come out, there might be stuff about him in there..

[Dire_Psycho]

ooooooooh, cant wait for the Book Of Dust *drools*

[MadJoy]

Regarding LO

It seems to me that from Pullman's introduction, and the not-so-subtle moral that everything has a meaning if you look into it, the whole book is a clue. We can figure out a lot about the next book if we look into it. For example, there is a postcard in the back written by Mary Mallone, who lives in Will's world.

The introduction mentions "The world is full of things like that: old postcards, theater programs, leaflets about bomb-proofing your cellar, greeting cards, photograph albums, holiday brochures, instruction booklets for machine tools, maps, catalogs, railway timetables, menu cards from long-gone cruise liners - all kinds of things that once served a real and useful purpose, but have now become cut adrift from the things and people they relate to. / They might have come from anywhere. They might have come from other worlds. That scribbled-on map, that publisher's catalog - they might have been put down absentmindedly in another universe, and been blown by a chance wind through an open window, to find themselves after many adventures on a market stall in our world. / All these tattered old bits and pieces have a history and a meaning."

This means that we need to look at the clues in LO and interpret them. There's much more than the short story and seemingly random bits and pieces we thought. This means that there are places where worlds still come together - this means that Dr. Mallone and Lyra are still connected somehow. And, perhaps more importantly, thus Lyra and Will.

[idefeatedsin]

My sister bought Lyra's Oxford today. It was so good to read about Lyra and Pan. I wanted to cry when Will was mentioned and was really hoping PP would mention what happened to him. Oh well there's always the Book Of Dust.

I think nearly everyone on this board is going to hate me but I am hoping Will and Lyra get together. I have tried to accept the fact that it was for the best but no can do. So who's going to join me?

Right well I am off to investigate all the stuff in the book. Oh and also I love your post MadJoy it gives me a new kind of hope for Will and Lyra.

[krebbe]

I've thought about it a lot and have decided that the story didn't need them to separate at the end to still be a fantastic story with a powerful message. I've no idea how PP would have ended it with them together, but I think it could have been done. However, now that the story has ended the way it has, I wouldn't like to see any reunion, as it would devalue the trilogy and the message their sacrifice sends.

[Max]

the message their sacrifice sends.

But it sends a poor message - 'sacrifice yourself for the greater good' - which contradicts the message of the rest of the novel.

[krebbe]

the message their sacrifice sends.

But it sends a poor message - 'sacrifice yourself for the greater good' - which contradicts the message of the rest of the novel.

I wouldn't say it was a poor message, although it may seem out of keeping with the rest of the book. I attribute it to Will and Lyra growing up and taking on the responsibilities of adulthood.

[idefeatedsin]

your cat scares me krebbe

[krebbe]

Your fear is well founded.

[Giarc1126]

I think nearly everyone on this board is going to hate me but I am hoping Will and Lyra get together. I have tried to accept the fact that it was for the best but no can do. So who's going to join me?

I think that everyone does, even if they don't realize it, they just won't admit it.
*Note* A ninja-smiley would go above but due to the restriction of Emoticons in The Republic of Heaven forum; no such luck. *Note*

[Peter]

There's nothing to prevent you from hosting an image somewhere else...

[Soapy]

They do end up together. They made a promise that when they die they will leave the land of the dead and every atom of Will will attach itself to every atom of Lyra. So, eventually, they will be together.


I think that's the hope I live with about them.

[Phit]

They made a promise that when they die they will leave the land of the dead and every atom of Will will attach itself to every atom of Lyra. So, eventually, they will be together.

That's what I made my fanfic about. Sounds like such a sweet promise, but then there is that whole thing about them getting married to other people. Poor spouse gets the cold shoulder in the end then. I figure they'd learn better and break that every atom promise at very least.

[anyatheindestructible]

I think nearly everyone on this board is going to hate me but I am hoping Will and Lyra get together. I have tried to accept the fact that it was for the best but no can do. So who's going to join me?

I will but this seems more like an Amber Spyglass discussion so I'm taking it to that thread about the ending.

[Megan27]

I'm with you with the will and lyra thing..
in the amber spyglass they were so in love and it was all so perfect and corney and then when they were seperated it was so sad..

i think that two great characters like will and lyra are supposed to be reunited in the end, because we found out in TAS that they acheive alot more when there together that they will have to build the republicc of heaven together

[Lanthode]

You just managed to reply to a post from 2 and a half years ago xD

Congratulations!

(surely this should be locked, no?)

[onehumaneye]

I'm probably missing something here because I read HDM once and then LO so maybe this hasn't sunk in yet or I just got it wrong, but ... (hi everyone!) ... on the map there is a note that says Mary Malone lives here. Is this not a map of Lyra's Oxford? How can she live there if Will can't? Isn't she about 40? So why would she risk death in 10 years? There must be a way this is done.

About Will and Lyra ... there are all sorts of ways that they could have been together but apparently Pullman didn't want them together. In a way, the story could not continue if they were together.

What I noticed in LO is that Lyra made a real mistake like anyone would. When she made mistakes in HDM they were mistakes that Dust knew she would make and must make. But ... here Lyra has to become a little more real for people to relate to her.

If Pullman says their story is over ... I don't believe it. I mean, I don't believe that Lyra Silvertongue will just go on living some simple life. And so I think something will happen. How it can happen without his writing about it I don't know. But I also didn't know what would happen next from page 1 of HDM.

[onehumaneye]

To add to that:

Lyra and Will had to separate because eventually everyone has to separate. You can't really know how much you love someone unless you realize what you will be giving up when you lose them. Separation is what makes us real. Pullman has said, I think, that Dust is conscious volition. That requires separation, becoming an individual.

If some things are the same in Will's and Lyra's Oxfords, then it is not as if two different things in two different cities a few miles or light years apart are the same — those things are in the same "place" and "time" so they are the same one thing. If two things are exactly alike, then they are the same thing. So when Will and Lyra sit on the same bench, they really are together on that one bench. But, we cry, they can't see or hear or feel each other! Well, maybe they just hadn't figured that out yet at the end of TAS. After all, Mary and Will couldn't see their daemons until they learned how.

So if Lyra seems a bit lost in LO, that may be just a first step for her. I believe in her.