The Republic of Heaven

It's pretty obvious that Lord Asriel and Mrs Coulter are terrible parents. My question is, who do you think is worse?

On the plus side for Lord Asriel, he did take Lyra to Jordan College, a place where she spent her childhood relatively safe and happy. And he did visit her every so often. On the other hand, he shows very little interest in her except as a means to an end. And he killed her best friend.

Mrs Coulter did take care of Lyra twice, once when they lived in her flat, and once in the cave. In the end, her love for Lyra also led her to risk her life in saving Lyra from the bomb, and sacrificing herself to destroy Metatron. But she did neglect Lyra for most of her childhood, then after that attempted to control her and even kept her against her will.

In short, they both suck, but who sucks more?

while lord asriel spent away from his daughter, he did have her safety in mind and the master of jordan indicated he would've returned at the instant her safety was compromised (except that he was locked up in svalbard). he's obviously not the warmest parent, but i think he was more invested in her well-being by placing her in oxford than mrs. coulter was, even while/after lyra was in her custody. i feel like the maternal instinct that kicks in towards the end (even if it's done selflessly) doesn't really make up for the years of active neglect and the months she used her (it's not in my view that the jordan college kidnapping was done to simply to reclaim custody).

I think the kidnapping and drugging tips the balance in favour of Mrs Coulter as the worse one.

*worst as a superlative?

It's only comparing two people, so one is better and one is worse, rather than best and worst (I noticed Rosie had noticed this too from the topic moderation log).

Do not confuse comparative and superlative adjectives. Comparative adjectives can only be used to compare two people or things, and superlative adjectives can only be used to compare more than two people or things.

I've voted for Asriel. He cared about Lyra's safety and all that, but as a parent I can't say that he loves Lyra more than Ms.Coulter. Even though she drugged her and held her against her will and was in all respects horrible to Lyra, everything she did was out of love for Lyra. Whereas with Asriel, I personally felt that he never really cared that much about Lyra... everything he did was for himself.

Now that I think about it Asriel was a bit of a ~*dugong*~... why didn't I realise that before just now?

Meh, my opinion anyway.

But remember how vexed Azzy was when Lyra showed up to give him the alethiometer? He thought she had been sent, and his instinctive reaction to the thought of sacrificing his own child for his goals reveals a lot about him.

It's only comparing two people, so one is better and one is worse, rather than best and worst.

Oops. I confess, I didn't know that. They both sound right to my ears.

But Asriel didn't care much about Lyra until he found out that she was important to the war cause. She wasn't very important in his life before.

I think it's a pretty close call between both of them.

As far as i am concerned Asriel probably comes out in a slightly better possition, if only because he did make some effort to ensure that Lyra was well cared for and kept safe as a young child.
Mrs Coulter only seems to have shown an interest in Lyra later in her life, when she became potentially usefull.

Wolf.

I dunno, it comes down to whether or not you believe that Mrs. Coulter's love for Lyra at the end was real or feigned. Given the bomb scene, I'd argue that it was real, and didn't hae anything to do with whether or not Lyra was an important part of any plan. For the first time in her life, Mrs. Coulter was acting selflessly.

Thats a tricky one. I voted for Lord Asriel since he killed Lyra's best friend, Mrs Coulter only killed random less important children and the kidnapping and drugging thing was only to keep Lyra safe.

It's a very tough one. Neider did practically any parenting aside from Asriel visiting Lyra here and there and asking about what she had done since his last visit and Mrs. Coulter teaching her in those short 6 weeks in London and generally being a positive presence until she forced her to put away her handbag. But obviously both cared for her safety a lot, which can be counted as a bonus for each.

I think a better question would be, who had the more positive influence on Lyra and her development and I think it's a close call, but lord Asriel would win in my opinion - up to the killing of Roger that is. Pretending that he was her uncle didn't really help his cause in this question, but Mrs. Coulter's aggresive nature towards Lyra just to keep her safe I don't really approve off. There should be some strictness in parenting, but Msr. Coulter showed to be obsessive towards Lyra's safety and would go to any lenghts to achieve just that.

Just loving your child doesn't necesarily make you a better parent. Effort needs to be put forth in developing a child in a positive way.

So Mrs. Coulter gets my vote I suppose, though I'm still a bit torn between them since this question should really be expanded upon first before making the final decision.

I think mrs coulter is worse because although lord Asriel did kill Lyras best friend he did it for a good cause (to destroy the authority)

But then you get into the deper question. Are good intentions a reason for evil acts?

Many people say that Mrs. Coulter changed for the good in the end of the story. But i dont believe that for a second. Everything she says is a lie. I dont think she cared about Lyra at all. The only thing she cares about is Asriel. or help the church. Any Kindness shown to lyra was a way to get to him. It doesnt matter what she says about helping her and loving her. I dont believe one word she ever says in the whole book.

As for Asriel, he just simply doesnt care. Hes caring enough to not abandon her completely but for the most part he doesnt give a damn about Lyra at all. but I may be wrong.

no one sacrifices their existence for a lie.
their life maybe, but not their existence.

no one sacrifices their existence for a lie.
their life maybe, but not their existence.

Except she doesn’t sacrifices her existence for Lyra in my opinion. She does it for Asriel. Some might say that they did it together to help Lyra and Will but I doughty it. Asriel is not stupid. He knew if Metatron was thrown to the abyss the Authority’s power would be greatly weakened. Sense most of his power was given to metatron. So I do think Coulter would sacrifice her existence for Asriel but not Lyra.

aye, that does make sense.

so she progressed some as a person, gaining the ability to love, just not as a mother.

Frankly, they are both equally horrible as parents in my eyes.