TBOD: Angelica, a minor character worth mentioning again?

[Aurone]

The Book of Dust as we all know is a bunch of stories, before and after HDM Trilogy. There was one character that kinda got forgotten since her roll wasn't that important to the story. The girl who Will and Lyra met, the one who hated them because her brother died when Will took the knife. From what we saw in TSK, she seemed like a harsh leader and motivator. You think these are enough to possibly give her a small story and shows what becomes of her? I think if used right, she would be worth re-focusing on.

[jessia]

angelica? (shame teh wiki's still down)

[Aurone]

Yeah, Angelica, couldn't find it anywhere. Looking back, I can see that her character wasn't needed, but still very powerfull non the less. The scene that struck me the most was that Lee and John Parry saw her training kids to fight on the beach, which to me futher shows her influence and power that could be evolved on.

[jessia]

i think her character is required. it doesn't really feed into the theme of the story, but her leadership of the mob of children attacking the cat and later will and lyra demonstrates to lyra how cruel kids can be, which she talks to will about late, who's already experienced that.

she also shows a strong personal reaction to the loss of family to the spectres directly to lyra (previously only seen by serafina).

i think there might be a tie-in with will's unusual upbringing. it isn't fair to say there's not strong adult in his life, but elaine parry wasn't always lucid. angelica, paolo, and tulio, and most of the children in cittagazze had virtually no adults in their lives either.

[Aimee]

Angellica is needed to show Lyra how people can feel about their family. She had never known anyone to be close with family before and I don't think Lyra would have been infulenced much by the mob of children if it hadn't been for Angellica.
Also I really want to know the story behind the cat in TSK. I really liked it and I wish it had gone with L and W in the stories!

[aklebury]

ah the cat
the one thing that was always in the back of my mind throughout the subtle knife was whether Will's cat, Moxie was ok... just a little thing but i think Pullman handles it nicely having Will wonder about her briefly

Having said that I think Anjellica would certainly be interesting enough of a character to sustain my interest in a short story/chapter, but i can't really see what she would bring to the Book of Dust
- meaning that there's not any real reason to include her unless prehaps it's to show what happened to Cittagazze after the Spectres had gone and all the windows had been closed (ie. how they had to "rebuild" their world without the ability to steal things from other worlds as they used to, but with the bonus of no more spectres)

[Aimee]

It would be interseting to find out where the other cat come from. Was she just a random cat who wandered in by mistake or was she there for a reason.... Find out on "This was your story I made up and if you argue with me I will kill you!"

[Somewhat]

There wasn't another cat. There was the tabby Will saw climbing into Cittagazze; it was the same cat the children had attacked.

[Aimee]

REALLY!? Now there's something I didn't know. I just thought the cat reminded him of his cat.
Oh well you learn something new every day and so on.
I really need to read the books again

[Somewhat]

Ah, no. There were two cats, Moxie was his and tripped the man over; the other cat was the only one in Cittagazze. Sorry about getting you confused.

[Aimee]

Right! Now I am fine!
So it wasn't Moxie.
Can I just say it would be intresting to hear the story about the witch that fell in love with Jhon Parry!

[aklebury]

ooh yea good thought...

there are so many throwaway references made to other stories during the trilogy such as the witch who loved John Parry; Farder Coram and Serafina Pekkala + their son; how Iorek and Lee met etc.etc.

It'll be really good to be given some more detail off these even if they aren't 100% neccessary (ie. the trilogy as it stands is perfectly fine without them)

[Aimee]

I'm one of those people who as soon as I am given a snipet of a back story I make the rest up for myself. So the BOD will be a great book for me to read when it comes out.
I would also like to know about Angelias brother and why he got the knife.
The story of the knife bearers would be intresting as well.

[jessia]

i think he got the knife so he could survive...

[aklebury]

yeah, didn't he just want to protect his family from the spectres?

i'm pretty sure his motives were well-intentioned, even if his methods weren't

[Aletheia Dolorosa]

Getting back to Angelica, briefly. I think she was necessary because it made Will's fight with Tullio (her brother) for the knife more powerful. If he was just some random guy, with no connection to Will and Lyra, the fight would have been much less impersonal. The fact that he was the brother of someone known to Lyra and Will gave the fight a further level of moral complexity...

[Aurone]

I think the fact that she managed to control the other children the way she did and play the role of leader so powerfully is reason enough to show what becomes of her. I'm thinking more of the years after HDM when the windows are shut and Cittegazze is left alone again. With out the Spectres, the powers that be must be trying to get the world back in order, but Angelica and other chidlren who grew up with out authority might rebel, and she would be prime canidate to help lead that rebellion.

[Aletheia Dolorosa]

And wouldn't there also be a whole bunch of adults running around with their brains completely Spectre-wiped? Or did closing the doors return Spectre-affected adults to normal? If it didn't, the Cittagazze society will be completely unbalanced...

[aklebury]

I think the fact that she managed to control the other children the way she did and play the role of leader so powerfully is reason enough to show what becomes of her.

she very much comes across as Lyra's equal in many ways

[Aletheia Dolorosa]

she very much comes across as Lyra's equal in many ways

Sort of like a 'this is how Lyra would have turned out if she had lived in a world without adults' kind of thing? A warning?