one of the rules was broken!

[Grumman]

I prefer happy endings, other people don't - its a personal thing in the same way as interpretations of the level of the physical relationship between Lyra and Will is. There's no universal 'better' as so much of the creativity is within the reader!
s

I believe that a story si good, not so much because people like it or dislike it, but because it leaves an impression on the reader (or the viewer in the case of cinema and theatre). By this I don't mean that it needs to be shocking, which would be an easy way to achieve this, but that it needs to have substance. Indeed, I agree that there's no such thing as universal 'better', and that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Enitharmon]

There's a lot wrong with postmodernism - its mostly drivel written by people who needed an excuse to abandon marxism and retain their academic salaries (in my opinion alone of course).

Ah yes, I do like people who dismiss arguments that they don't understand by insulting them! Can you offer us a critical appraisal of Barthes and Derrida so we can see where you disagree with them?

And you're a teacher - tut tut! What do you teach, by the way?

[Melancholy Man]

There's a lot wrong with postmodernism - its mostly drivel written by people who needed an excuse to abandon marxism and retain their academic salaries (in my opinion alone of course).

Ah yes, I do like people who dismiss arguments that they don't understand by insulting them! Can you offer us a critical appraisal of Barthes and Derrida so we can see where you disagree with them?

And you're a teacher - tut tut! What do you teach, by the way?

No bloody chance.

[Dante]

Ah, but.....

[sg249]

There's a lot wrong with postmodernism - its mostly drivel written by <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a> who needed an excuse to abandon marxism and retain their academic salaries (in my opinion alone of course).

Ah yes, I do like <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a> who dismiss arguments that they don't understand by insulting them! Can you offer us a critical appraisal of Barthes and Derrida so we can see where you disagree with them?

And you're a teacher - tut tut! What do you teach, by the way?

History. However, I don't think to trace the political heritage of most postmodernists to provide answers for why they developed the thought system is that unfair. I don't think anyone wants to read a treatise on Derrida's 'Specters of Marx', for example, and I don't want to write - so I won't! Derrida's work is, generally understandable, exceedingly complex -as were his lectures! (I'm not entirely sure how much of that was an affectation - should all ideas be able to be explained simply??)

However, and vitally, it is entirely possible to make criticisms of the broad movement of postmodernism - a movement developed, certainly in the UK (where I am) by <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a> seeking to rapidly distance themselves from their Communist past. Which may be fine, but to claim it is a radical doctrine (which they do, again, moreso in the UK than in, for example, France) is to replace genuine desire for social change with a radical individualism not too far from Thatcherism. I'm not a Communist, but I see far more honour in Marxism, even of the 1970s CPGB kind, than in a retreat to middle class intellectualism actively designed to be inaccessible to the broad mass of the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a>. (Not that all <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=writing&v=56">writing</a> should be simplistic, but that in the work of *some* postmodernists this complexity is almost the only aim).

<a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=Writing&v=56">Writing</a> too much, will stop - last point, I'm not sure I was actively insulting them...certainly not compared to what they have said in polemics against remaining Marxist academics. (Rivers of blood etc..)

s


Edit - much of the above reads back as irrelevant ramblings, apologies!

[vegsinPA]

[quote="la bohemia"]RULE NUMBER THREE OF STORY-TELLING: True love should always be together.

Upon first reading the conclusion of the Amber Spyglass, I was (as you can imagine) absoutely positively...upset, for lack of a better word. As in, throwing the book across the room and storming out of my bedroom in a tearful rage, cursing Mr. Pullman quite colorfully.

When I had calmed down a bit and had suffiently cleaned the stinging mascara out of my eyes (do any of you boys knows how much it hurts to sob with that stuff on? it burns!) I reread the ending again...and again...and again...now, that may seem a tad masochistic, but in truth I was looking for a loophole, someway so that Will and Lyra could be together. I found one (forgotten now), and delighted, but then upon further reflection, I realized the book would not have been the same if the protagonists had been allowed to remain together.

For one, the book obviously would not have involked the same emotional responses. Who lugs a book into a wall because true love was permitted to never be seperated? Unless you're one of those sad individuals who despises love and feelings, no one. For another, you wouldn't have understood the sacrifices Will and Lyra had to make. There wouldn't have been any sacrifices. It would have ended Happily Ever After. (Rule Two, for Story-Telling, btw)

For awhile, my good friend and I mulled over this fact. The book, which had been absolutely perfect in all other aspects, had broken on of our imaginary 'rules' for the flawless story, yet was better because of it.

Huh. That was something to ponder over.

I'm sure most of us would have liked to see Will and Lyra stay together. But, then the story we all know and love would have been quite different. So, what do you guys think? Should they have stayed together and kept the rules intact? Or does breaking all our hearts make it a better story?[/quote]

That's a rule that's ment to be broken. Not all people want a happy ending.

[slash]

couldn't they have used a lodestone resonator? give one end to Will and one to Lyra.

[ThE GaRdEn BeNcH]

i think pullman did the right thing...or at least thats what i want to say.

GOD! ive always prided myself on being somone who doesnt mind realistic, unhappy endings.

but...*sniff sniff*...why?!

[Imagine]

i think pullman did the right thing.

Me too. He's always said that stories should go wherever they want, and the author should not impose his or her agenda on a story. I don't have a problem with lovers being split up--sometimes, that's what happens.

[Imagine]

i think pullman did the right thing.

Me too. He's always said that stories should go wherever they want, and the author should not impose his or her agenda on a story. I don't have a problem with lovers being split up--sometimes, that's what happens.