Jesus

Veritagnarus · Postby **Veritagnarus** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:22 pm

Something I was thinking of earlier this day after I finished reading TAS for the second time was: How does Jesus fit in with all this?

So, anyone have any ideas?

Postby **Soapy** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:24 pm

I don't, but PP appears to

Veritagnarus · Postby **Veritagnarus** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:36 pm

Ah, thanks! I'd been wondering, you see...

But that doesn't seem to fit with what I like to call "the Dust-verse," so...

It was intersting to see his thoughts, though, and I'd probably pick up that book if he wrote it...

Will · Postby **Will** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:44 pm

Before anyone brings it up yet again: yes, Jesus is mentioned in HDM. Mrs. Coulter calls herself a Christian at one point in TAS. I really should note the page number down..

Veritagnarus · Postby **Veritagnarus** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:46 pm

Oh, I know he was mentioned. You can hardly have a book about God without Jesus, as Jesus kinda sets the scene for the papacy and all that rot.

I was just wondering how it worked, what with the Almighty being a worthless, husk of an angel who got beat up by wind...

furbaby · Postby **furbaby** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:24 am

Veritagnarus wrote: what with the Almighty being a worthless, husk of an angel who got beat up by wind...

It read like an angel with Alzheimer's, if such a thing would be feasible.

Postby **bethanwy** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:31 pm

Well, it was a verry old angel.
Even angels can get sick.

heatheradair · Postby **heatheradair** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:12 pm

when i first read it, i saw lyra as being symbolic of jesus (even though they called her eve)

she sacrificed herself to free other souls from their hell, for example...
when she rose again, however, she didn't go to heaven - she returned to earth... i thought this was pullman demonstrating that heaven and earth are one and the same?

perhaps i'm just crazy.

Stargirl · Postby **Stargirl** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:48 pm

Yes but Lord asriel and Mrs. Coulter are the ones in the end who also sacrifice their lives, so that could be representative too.

Somewhat · Postby **Somewhat** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:46 am

A very good point. Maybe Asriel could be seen as Jesus, leading the people out of their darkness and into the light.
Although in that case he would be a direct opposite to Jesus, as Jesus tried to bring people closer to God, while Asriel tried to lead them away. Still, the idea is the same.

Enitharmon · Postby **Enitharmon** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:02 am

Will wrote:Before anyone brings it up yet again: yes, Jesus is mentioned in HDM. Mrs. Coulter calls herself a Christian at one point in TAS. I really should note the page number down..

I'm afraid that doesn't count as a mention of Jesus. 'Christ' is the Greek equivalent oif 'Messiah', the annointed one, deliverer of the Jews. So far as we know from the Gospels, Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah, that was something Paul of Tarsus ascribed to him after his death. Paul of Tarsus has a great deal to answer for in our world.

I believe there isno mention of Jews in HDM - perhaps they were delivered by another Messiah?

Postby **Peter** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:27 am

I have my own theories about Jesus in Lyra's world. See this: The Holy War.

Melancholy Man · Postby **Melancholy Man** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:56 am

Is that the one where the Nazarene's dove-daemon was nailed to a lolly-pop stick?

Postby **Peter** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:32 pm

Melancholy Man wrote:Is that the one where the Nazarene's dove-daemon was nailed to a lolly-pop stick?

No - that's The Reliquary.

The piece to what I was referring was The Holy War in which I described, inter alia, how the Church tried to suppress the Jesus story.

Ian · Postby **Ian** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:44 pm

Ceres wrote:how the Church tried to suppress the Jesus story.

Go easy; you'll have Dan Brown after you if he hears that... :wink:

Melancholy Man · Postby **Melancholy Man** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:11 pm

Shurrup, Peter! DB will bore us to death with his purple prose and mixed metaphors. :shock:

Postby **Peter** » Tue May 09, 2006 3:06 pm

I was there first...

Somewhat · Postby **Somewhat** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:41 am

Purple prose?
Lollipops?
*Gibbers*

Still, I think my theory is snazzy.

Angel to follow · Postby **Angel to follow** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:43 pm

I agree Asriel may represent him, I think his absence is significant here.
Maybe PP considered him insignificant and implies that the church may have made him up.

Tankian · Postby **Tankian** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:30 pm

Maybe the Church DID make Jesus up. Even in our world. Think about it. We don't actually have any historical or scientific evidence for the existence of Jesus' life. Did you ever actually think about that? That it could be just a myth like Adam & Eve?
Shame, Jesus sounded like a cool dude.

Jesus

Jesus

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