The Republic of Heaven

now this may be a tiny bit off topic but I thought, and it's been a while since I last read TAS, that Will and Lyra were more around the age of 13 by the end of HDM, the events of which period we are discussing. I think there was a thread about this before the forums went down, though so ignore this if it seems redundant.


[Topic split from Did Will and Lyra do the deed? on 03/5/04]

Vicanne19 wrote:

Enitharmon wrote:Under the lines of text of course!

Oh yes, now I see. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I didn't mean to sound dismissive, it's just my funny way.

I suppose I could have said that just because the book doesn't explicitly say they shagged each other, it doesn't mean they didn't. Or, indeed, that they did. But PP leaves lots of unaccounted-for time - like the sea voyage - in which they might well have done if that suits the way you would like to have interpreted it. Two weeks is a long time just to gaze into each others eyes, especially after you've got used to several months of doing exciting things together. I really don't think they'd want to lower the tempo to almost nothing.

Besides, the book doesn't ever say that Lyra went to the toilet, but that doesn't mean she had the superhuman power to go without for all that time!

Lyra was eleven, Will was twelve.

The Unsettled One wrote:Lyra was eleven, Will was twelve.

Show your working please, accounting for all elapsed time.

well that's news, I would be interested in seeing everybody's opinions on the subject when the old threads come back.

Well it all happened in under a year, when Lyra was in bolvangar she said her age was eleven, which was accurate, and Will was twelve. From the first book to the third couldn't have taken much more than 3 months or so maybe 4.

But i think Lyra may have added a year by the end of the trilogy.

just goes to show how screwed up my sense of time is. when I first read HDM a few years back I thought it spanned enough time for them to age two years or so by the end but now that I think about it the events could not taken that long. I suppose their exact age at the end of HDM is not clear as I don't think PP ever said anything about it in that part.

if we had the rest of the boards around, i'd probably be able to find the working-out someone did to figure out the age, calculating the time span for the individual events mentionned in the book.

but we don't. by the way, how is the search function working these days?

On the back of TSK it says, 'Will was a twelve year old boy.......'
and in NL Lyra says 'My name is <blah blah> and i'm eleven years old'

Doesn't seem like it's working, does it. The PM system isn't functioning either.

The Unsettled One wrote:Well it all happened in under a year, when Lyra was in bolvangar she said her age was eleven, which was accurate, and Will was twelve. From the first book to the third couldn't have taken much more than 3 months or so maybe 4.

How do you justify the three or four months?

How long does it take to walk from the Arctic to the Himalayas? And back again? Four or five thousand miles, by Will's own reckoning? (TAS, p28)

Actually you can't accurately say how much time elapses in TAS because it is undetermined - I believe deliberately so as the alternative is that PP was unbelievably careless with his timescales.

he took a boat with the panserbjorne

The Unsettled One wrote:he took a boat with the panserbjorne

How fast do river boats travel? He picked up the boat at a substantial town so it wasn't in the tundra, so he'd already walked a considerable distance to get there. Then there's the walk through the World of the Dead - same distance, no river-boat there, they walked all the way and not in the easiest of conditions.

Enitharmon wrote:How long does it take to walk from the Arctic to the Himalayas? And back again? Four or five thousand miles, by Will's own reckoning? (TAS, p28).

the arctic? i thought it was somewhere in italy... 'cause they were in cittigazze (which i swear pullman once called venice, but i don't have sources, so blah), and then they walked a day or two.

Does it matter anyway, they got there and that's what's important. And they might have aged a bit.
I also change what i said from 4 months to about errrr........ 6-8 at the most.

jess wrote:the arctic? i thought it was somewhere in italy... 'cause they were in cittigazze (which i swear pullman once called venice, but i don't have sources, so blah), and then they walked a day or two.

For convenience I'm reckoning everything relative to the L-World. We know that Cittagazze in the C-World maps to somewhere close to Svalbard in the L-World and to Oxford in our world. Also, when Will cuts a window from the C-World to the L-World he steps into tundra.

Have a look here, this is the layout of maps and where they cross over.

http://www.bridgetothestars.net/index.php?p=map
Lyra's svalbard is right on top of Will's london

that must be one the benefits of being a hugely popular and incredibly talented author: you get to watch the fans fight savagely over even the most minute details or vagaries (although I'm not saying Will and Lyra's age is irrelevant), which you might or might not have even thought much about, and you chuckle away as your rabid followers fight over the scraps you throw them. PP is not the only author to enjoy this, just look at the debates about balrog wings...

well said............

The Unsettled One wrote:well said............

You're the one laying down the law on how old they are and how long it takes...