Alternate Ending

[mtbanger]

The more I think about it, the more I love the ending.
The books wouldn't stay with you half as much if the ending was just a run of the mill 'happily ever after' ending. I guess it's one of the things that makes the third book so emotionally powerful. And I think PP wrote Lyra's desperation in that scene (where Xaphania tells them they must seperate) so strongly that it really gets at you.

I agree, I only said my theory for the sake of argument, it would completely ruin it if the ending WAS happy, (and I think that my theory would work, because Sir Charles Latrom managed it, why not Lyra and Will?) Pullman IS a great author or else this whole forum wouldnt be here right?

[Tankian]

The problem with this alternate ending is that it spits in the face of one of the most important morals of the book, sacrifice. The sacrifice Will & Lyra made is so powerful that to stop more Spectres being made, to stop more Dust leaking from the world and to save all dead beings from an eternity of misery and give them in a way, reincarnation, but to do all that they had to do give up what they love most. You see they couldn't keep seeing each other AND do the other stuff. They had to choose one path, and the greater good is what they chose. It's the message of the book that doing the right thing is so important. This alternate ending just sort of implys you can save the universe but still arse around ~*Octupleposting*~ each other, that takes away the gravity of the right thing they did and makes them irresponsible because they're still losing Dust and making Spectres just so the two of THEM can be happy. You can't ruin the universe for your own gain. Sometimes in life you have to make a sacrifice, a great sacrifice to do the right thing. That's what Pullman's ending is all about.

[andrewkd]

I don't see why they both couldn't have just gone to a neutral world and lived there together even if only for 10 years

[Angel to follow]

Because that isn't a memorable ending.

[Aletheia Dolorosa]

It's the 'Fred must die' rule!

Philip Pullman said:

I am the servant of the story. The story made me do it. That was what had to happen. If I'd denied it, the story wouldn't have had a tenth of its power.

We can't really argue with that, can we? But we can weep and wail and tear our hair

[The Funny Man]

Not saying some loophole or anything, I was just wondering if the Dust would have righted itself if Lyra had fallen in love with anyone else, or did it have to be the knife-bearer?

[AUST]

It had to be Will, it's fated. he's Adam, she's Eve. she has to offer him the apple and no-one else.

[Mockingbird]

It had to be Will, it's fated. he's Adam, she's Eve. she has to offer him the apple and no-one else.

That's a bit tricksy, that word 'fated'. Like Will said at one point, he controls his own fate, nothing should be fated in the Republic, to my understanding. My question is who is controlling this play if there is no God? Who cast Lyra as Eve and Will as Adam and says that outward flow of Dust will cease when they fall in love? Why them? I'd like to know what Pullman has to say about it...

[Mr Anderson]

That's a bit tricksy, that word 'fated'. Like Will said at one point, he controls his own fate, nothing should be fated in the Republic, to my understanding. My question is who is controlling this play if there is no God? Who cast Lyra as Eve and Will as Adam and says that outward flow of Dust will cease when they fall in love? Why them? I'd like to know what Pullman has to say about it...

Why them? Why is it you that wakes up in the morning? Why is it you that comes on and posts in this forum? An act, however small or large is still simply an act, and whoever does it, does it and that is the way of it.

You could say nobody cast them as Adam and Eve just as nobody cast you as Mockingbird on this forum. You came to this forum because you choose to. Lyra walked into the stars because she choose to. You could say, Lyra was fated to fall in love with will just as you are fated to post on this forum. Fate is impossible to prove, or disprove.

Understand, Will and Lyra are not special in anyway. They become Adam and Eve not because they were ment to, but because they do. Their choices lead up to it. If they were born to different families, they would never even have met. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.

Essentially the trilogy lets you choose whether it was fate or choice yourself.

[Mockingbird]

Understand, Will and Lyra are not special in anyway. They become Adam and Eve not because they were ment to, but because they do. Their choices lead up to it. If they were born to different families, they would never have met let alone become Adam and Eve. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.

Good answer, Mr. Anderson. And nicely quoted from LoTR at the end too .

[Jez]

My question is who is controlling this play if there is no God? Who cast Lyra as Eve and Will as Adam and says that outward flow of Dust will cease when they fall in love? Why them? I'd like to know what Pullman has to say about it...

It can be argued that Dust has some control over events; it certainly guides Lyra to some extent (through the alethiometer) and also Mary.

I suppose that technically Lyra could have fallen in love with someone else if events had happened differently (and that someone, by default, would take the role of Adam), but actually I can't see how she could have fallen in love with anyone else but Will and still fulfilled the prophecy. How could she have reached the land of the dead without Will and his knife? In that sense, Will is just as necessary as Lyra.

[Silversnake]

I suppose that technically Lyra could have fallen in love with someone else if events had happened differently (and that someone, by default, would take the role of Adam), but actually I can't see how she could have fallen in love with anyone else but Will .

It could have been Roger! If Arisel had been posioned Roger wouldn't wouldn't have died.

[jordan college girl]

perhaps fate is the course of events that would allow the world to continue to exist. Dr. Lanselius said that Lyra's fate was on the edge of a knife, that if she strayed to either side our lives would be dictated by another fate like clockwork. So perhaps, it had to be Will in order for free-will to continue. She could have chosen someone else, but then the worlds would lose meaning and no one else could choose who they wish.

Or maybe I made all of this up.

[yesac113]

here another one for you(sorry if anyone had this didn't read the whole thing)
can they just switch off between worlds like that one guy did(the guy with the serpant as the daemon) or does it go into the whole dust leakage problem?

[Roll_with_it]

Did you read the book AndrewKd? The ending wasn't about Lyra and Will being happy, it was a moral for them and for everyone. They had to spread the word of the Republic of heaven and create dust. After all they'd been through, they wouldn't just waste it by living 10 years and then dying, would they? That's what they realised, that's when they truly grew up.

[Philharmonic]

MY alternate ending:

Will doesn't break the knife, he opens a window between his and Lyra's world somewhere, kills the spectre as it comes out, keeps the window small to keep Dust loss to a minimum and security from Xaphina and her lot at maximum, then enlargens it to go through every, say, five years so neither gets too weak, then at middle age, visit Serafina Pekkala to get some concuction that upon death will revert the body to a certain age, carry on in life till Will is nigh on dead, then he closes the window, breaks the knife, Lyra uses one of the shards to kill herself, they both go to the world of the dead together, and stay there living as young people until they get bored, go through the window into the world of the mulefa together, the atoms join up and form Willyratic molecules and carry on together until Judgement Day. Savvy?

It works, but I know one of you will find something wrong with it. Maybe we could lose the Serafina part.

[Acchon]

It could have been Roger! If Arisel had been posioned Roger wouldn't wouldn't have died.

Well, if that happend Lyra and Will could not have saved the universe, right? Is not that why they made the sacrefice in the first place? Roger cound not have been Adam, then they could not have created the Republic of Heaven in other worlds.