The Republic of Heaven

Themes

Discuss the opening book of the trilogy

Themes

Postby Godant » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:18 am

I love this book, can't wait for the movie, but I've been wondering which of the many themes stood out the most for you? I would say it to me was friendship, because Lyra goes to the end of the world to help her friend and tons of bad stuff happens to her (bears, silver guillotine(sp?), and the bears and everything too much to say lol), and then she saves him and goes on to try and save Lord Asriel but gets betrayed (that really caught me off guard when I read it). Anyway, I'm just wondering what you guys take on the themes and which one stood out the most to you was. Thanks for any replies :D
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Postby Jez » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:53 pm

It was the deeper, more philosophical themes that stood out most for me. Particularly the relationship between the body and the daemon, which symbolises the nature of humanity. By severing the link, the Oblation Board were stifling the very essence of what makes us human. That struggle I found to be very moving - I think that the scene where Lyra is about to undergo intercision is one of the most powerful in the book.

One of the reasons I liked NL so much was that it could simply be enjoyed as an exciting children's story, but underlying it there was so much symbolism and so many things to think about. I like books that make you think.
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Postby Storm-Lily » Sun May 13, 2007 4:55 pm

Personally, I liked the "story" aspects of it. The epic adventure, the dangerous journey north etc.etc.
But the philosopical aspects reverberated inside me for days, weeks, afterwards. I found myself thinking more about the questions in the book, rather than the answers in the story.
So maybe the philosopical side was best for me after all....
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Postby AUST » Sun May 13, 2007 6:17 pm

Storm-Lily wrote:Personally, I liked the "story" aspects of it. The epic adventure, the dangerous journey north etc.etc.
But the philosopical aspects reverberated inside me for days, weeks, afterwards. I found myself thinking more about the questions in the book, rather than the answers in the story.
So maybe the philosopical side was best for me after all....

Agreed, at first I enjoyed it as just a stroy, but as I got older realised the significance of the whole thing and the philosophic undercurrent that was carried into the next books.
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Postby £ara » Tue May 15, 2007 11:31 pm

When i first read it i was too young, i realized the book was more than a epic story, but i was so charmed by the adventure i didnt thougt all things through. The way Lyra could read the Alethiometer (sorry, dont know the names in english) was the most for me!!

But in the other times i read it (specially the last, one month ago) i was facinated by the relationships of love, friendship... began to thing about what was the essence of the human being, what makes us human and aware of the world around us.
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Postby Aeschylus » Wed May 16, 2007 1:35 am

I think for me it was growing up, and definately friendship. Friendship is huge in these books, there is not only the friendship between the people but the friendship between human and daemon.
"I leave ye with a riddle.. ...I'm hard yet soft, I'm coloured yet clear... ...I'm fruity and sweet, I am jelly... ...What am I?"

"If you're frightened of dyin' and you're holding on...
You'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace,
Then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth."
Radiohead, Rabbit in your Headlights.

"And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four beasts saying: "Come and see." And I saw. And behold, a white horse... And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him."
Johnny Cash, When the Man Comes Around.
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Postby Panzion » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:02 am

I think what I liked most about this novel, aside from the obvious,
was that it was written (most of it) from a girl's perspective even
though the author is a man. I think more male authors should do that.
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Postby Aeschylus » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:51 am

yeah that's a really good point i never thought of that before.
"I leave ye with a riddle.. ...I'm hard yet soft, I'm coloured yet clear... ...I'm fruity and sweet, I am jelly... ...What am I?"

"If you're frightened of dyin' and you're holding on...
You'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace,
Then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth."
Radiohead, Rabbit in your Headlights.

"And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four beasts saying: "Come and see." And I saw. And behold, a white horse... And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him."
Johnny Cash, When the Man Comes Around.
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Postby shruikan_shade » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:36 pm

I also found the link between human and daemon very interesting...the physical existence of the soul made for very interesting contemplation even when not reading, and the comparism to castration brought the issue into a greater focus.

"Life is unfair, deal with it." also seemed to be portrayed in this series:
Lyra worked to hard to save Roger and help her father, saving all the other children and the bears in the meanwhile...only to have Roger killed by her father at the end.

Will finally found his father, having lost 2 fingers in the process and left his mother in a world where people could be a danger to her, only to have his father killed by a random witch who could not control her emotions.

Wil and Lyra...after having gone through everything i just listed, been separated from their daemons, and had their lives upended and shaken about as much as possible, when they had both finally found something which was working and was right and perfect for both of them, they had it taken away from them almost as fast as it had begun.

I realise ive gone past the NL here, so may be off topic, but i thought i had to include the rest of teh trilogy to illustrate the point fully.
Last edited by shruikan_shade on Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aeschylus » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:15 am

Lyra worked to hard to save Roger and help her father, saving all the other children and the bears in the meanwhile...only to have Roger killed by her father at the end.


Now that's what you call ironic.
"I leave ye with a riddle.. ...I'm hard yet soft, I'm coloured yet clear... ...I'm fruity and sweet, I am jelly... ...What am I?"

"If you're frightened of dyin' and you're holding on...
You'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace,
Then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth."
Radiohead, Rabbit in your Headlights.

"And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four beasts saying: "Come and see." And I saw. And behold, a white horse... And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him."
Johnny Cash, When the Man Comes Around.
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Postby Witchfather » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:17 pm

It was a combination for me. I liked the growing from a child into adolescence, the philosophical and spiritual themes and the plot based themes. I also thought the settings were extremely well done.
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Postby AUST » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:29 pm

Witchfather wrote:It was a combination for me. I liked the growing from a child into adolescence, the philosophical and spiritual themes and the plot based themes. I also thought the settings were extremely well done.

indeed, his style is fantastic. I also love the way its laoded with refrences to otehr texts without seeming overbearing.
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Postby Rachaman » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:06 am

For me, it is the idea of creating 'The Republic of Heaven' wherever you are, because where you are is the most important place.

This concept is present most philosophies in one form or another, be is often lost beneath the dogma. I've only recently finished reading the series for the first time (well, actually reading it twice for the first time, since I immediately went through it again with my daughter), and that is what I find myself thinking about the most: How can I help create the Republic of Heaven?

edit: opps! I've just realized that this is in Northern Lights/Golden Compass, and here I've answered based on the series as a whole. I think while reading Golden Compass it was Lyra and the relationship with her daemon that struck me the most. She never spent so much time talking with Pan in later books.
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Postby DustDaemon » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:41 am

I always thought that growing up was the main theme of NL, as Lyra has to mature considerably before and during the main plot of the book. From that maturing theme branches the, previously mentioned, 'life's hard, deal with it.'

The personification of the bond to our souls if you have one :shifty: to me was a theme of ' We all must look inside ourself to find the answers to our being'...yes i did just make that up...Based on interpretations of my musings.
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